{"id":15131,"date":"2019-01-28T08:05:04","date_gmt":"2019-01-28T13:05:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/bullmensfiction.com\/?p=15131"},"modified":"2022-08-03T13:13:29","modified_gmt":"2022-08-03T17:13:29","slug":"hosho-mccreesh","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/the-bull-interview\/hosho-mccreesh\/","title":{"rendered":"Hosho McCreesh"},"content":{"rendered":"

I\u2019ve thought long and hard about how to start all this about Hosho McCreesh and\u00a0Chinese Gucci<\/em>, and ultimately I’ve decided the most appropriate way is to cheat.<\/p>\n

So here’s what Willy Vlautin<\/a> said:<\/p>\n

“Akira is maddening, endearing, troublesome, wounded, lonely, lazy, and a tremendously enthralling ne\u2019er-do-well. A modern Ignatius J. Reilly selling knock-off Chinese Gucci on eBay. You\u2019ll love him and hate him, you\u2019ll want to save him and throw him off a building.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Akira Nakimura being the protagonist of Hosho McCreesh\u2019s novel Chinese Gucci<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Willy Vlautin being fucking Willy Vlautin.<\/p>\n

Honestly, I’m well aware of my propensity towards hyperbole, sure, but believe it or not, I usually try to avoid throwing around literary comparisons in stuff like this. It\u2019s too easy to play a kind of SAT-question Chinese Gucci<\/em> is to X<\/em>, as [Random<\/em>\u00a0Book You’ve Heard of<\/em>] is to Y<\/em>, which is part of why I\u2019m cheating and quoting Willly Vlautin here. Because, yeah, that\u2019s it. That\u2019s exactly it. Ignatius J. Reilly. Confederacy of Dunces<\/em>.\u00a0<\/span>Chinese Gucci<\/em>. This is the best I can come up with. What Willy said.<\/p>\n

Or hell, while we\u2019re down this SAT-question rabbit hole, we might as well let our our favorite femme fatale of Florida-noir Steph Post<\/a> weigh in on things:<\/p>\n

\u201cA Catcher in the Rye<\/em> for the twenty-first century.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Which, listen, I get it. How many times have you read that some new book\u2019s the next Catcher in the Rye<\/em> or that the protagonist of this some new book is a real Holden Caulfield for our era, and if I had said this myself, then I\u2019d expect nothing less than for you to call bullshit on me, but try to stay with me. It wasn\u2019t some hack like me. It was Steph fuckin’ Post.<\/p>\n

And sometimes it just is: a <\/em>Catcher for the twenty-first century<\/em>.<\/p>\n

And here I am I’m tell you don’t listen to me, I’m just cheating off the tests of the smartest kids in the class and I\u2019m only confirming it for you.<\/p>\n

Don\u2019t believe me\/Steph\/Willy all the other people who’ve already said the same thing? Then prove us all wrong, dickhead. Go read Chinese Gucci<\/em>. Then afterward, when you\u2019re telling everybody else why they need to read it, you try and describe it without the words Ignatius<\/em>, Holden<\/em>, Catcher<\/em>, or Confederacy<\/em>.<\/p>\n

But also, here\u2019s this: Chinese Gucci<\/em> isn\u2019t Catcher<\/em> or Confederacy<\/em> and Akira Nakimura isn\u2019t Holden or Ignatius or any of the other standard bearers for unlikeable protagonists that readers\/reviewers\/blurbers reference with equal parts unabashed love and condescension.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s this punk kid just out of high school, a little too old to still be acting like such a punk kid. He\u2019s just your typical Japanese-American kid who speaks fluent hip-hop and textese, loves Internet porn and first-person shooter games where you get to reenact the Normandy Invasion and kill a bunch of people without any of the PTSD flashbacks.<\/p>\n

The type of kid who’s constantly got his ear buds in loud enough for everybody to hear as he bumps Snoop, 50 Cent, and a random local speed-metal band from Albuquerque called Leeches of Lore who split up five years ago. The type of kid with obvious mommy issues and daddy issues who doesn\u2019t just joke about buying fake vaginas online\u2014he buys them.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s the your typical Japanese-American kid who lives inAlbuquerque, New Mexico, who hangs out on weekends in Juarez, Mexico so he can “invest in” knock-off purses made in China and re-sell them on his dead mother\u2019s eBay account.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s DIY and a slacker leeching off his parents at the same time.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s a goddamn millennial if there ever was one. He\u2019s stunted. He\u2019s America. He\u2019s everything that\u2019s wrong with kids these days. He\u2019s us. And he\u2019s everything about us that we say we hate but deep down we can\u2019t quit on because, well, he\u2019s us and to give up on him would be to give up on every shitty thing about us we’re too embarrassed to admit.<\/p>\n

Because at this point, in this country, in this world, yeah, we\u2019re all the unlikeable protagonists of our own ugly satires.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s the book that\u2014honestly, all hyperbole and lofty literary comparisons aside\u2014nobody else has written, nobody else could\u2019ve written.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s a poet who\u2019s never published a novel before who sets out to write \u201cthe great American novel<\/a>\u201d with no bluster or blushing.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s the giant middle finger to every editor or publisher who\u2019s ever said you\u2019ll never sell a book like that. Nobody\u2019ll get it. Nobody\u2019s gonna read a novel with from the point of view of a millennial punk kid that unlikeable, that na\u00efve, pompous, empathetic, and ethically questionable at the same time\u2014that un-pitch-able (i.e.<\/em> that un-pigeon-hole-able).<\/p>\n

He\u2019s the book you need to be reading. He\u2019s the book you need to be telling your friends about.<\/p>\n

He\u2019s not Akira Nakimura. He’s Hosho motherfuckin McCreesh (no matter how much Hosho might deny it<\/em>).<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

[Authors Note: The following questions are quoted from random things that I cribbed from other interviews McCreesh has given that I have now taken out of context and turned them around as gotcha questions in my attempt to impress everybody with my high journalistic acumen]:<\/h5>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/u>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat are you doing on the roof of my house?\u201d<\/a><\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n

Benjamin Drevlow:<\/strong> If you would allow me, sir, I think it\u2019s important that we establish something from the start of this whole interview: What are<\/em> you doing up there on the roof of my house?<\/p>\n

Hosho McCreesh:<\/strong> If I\u2019m up there, I\u2019m obviously too far gone to know what the hell I\u2019m doing.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> And if I sometimes get drunk and end up hanging out on the roof of my house, too? I mean, what I\u2019m really trying to ask is if you think we could be, like, roof-hanging buddies?<\/p>\n

But also: What would be the likelihood of us both falling off and dying\/breaking our necks based on your past roof-hanging proclivities?<\/p>\n

HM:<\/strong> Definitely. Hanging on roofs is pretty boss… though, these days, I prefer an easy elevator ride, or a nice deck up there. When you\u2019re young, you\u2019re invincible\u2014and climbing rickety ol\u2019 fire escapes or drain pipes isn\u2019t a problem. Then you get older… and mortality pokes you ever so gently in the chest a couple times. These days the chances of falling off are very high.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m not really a \u2018writer\u2019 so much as just a guy who writes. I have a regular 40-hour-a-week gig\u201d<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> \u00a0What I\u2019m wondering: a). You still doing the forty? and b). Do you voluntarily admit to people that you are a capital W<\/em>–Writer<\/em> or do you have reservations about that based on your \u201cregular gig\u201d?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>Still working the forty-hour gig plus a little writing work on the side. At least another decade of that for me. If I make it, (and the world is still here) I\u2019ll get retirement. Then it\u2019s tacos and art all day! If I have any reservations about calling myself a \u201ccapital W-Writer\u201d it\u2019s that I don\u2019t especially feel like one based on sales, etc. I\u2019m not trying to pretend to be something I\u2019m not. I\u2019ve been publishing for 19 years, but I\u2019m a small press writer. I am a million miles away from New York, and New York is at least a million miles away from me. I don\u2019t know any Capital W-Writers, the kind that movies and TV shows tell me exist. I certainly haven\u2019t bumped into any in New Mexico.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> I guess then that brings up c). How does this whole idea of being a \u201cWriter\u201d or a \u201cWorking-Class Writer\u201d or simply \u201ca guy who writes\u201d come into play with the types stories and poems you write?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>Part of it is who I am and where I come from. Growing up, there were times when we were really poor. Seeing the people around me live interesting and compelling lives, live out stories that don\u2019t typically end up in novels left an impression on me. And New Mexico is a pretty blue-collar place, a place that doesn\u2019t suffer pretentious fools lightly. Most folks here don\u2019t have time or money for poetry books, and probably don\u2019t relate to the vagaries of struggling with multi-generational wealth. New Mexico is a salt-of-the-earth place, with salt-of-the-earth people…so those are the stories I naturally am drawn to.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> And well shit while we\u2019re at it, we might as well go for d). I was thinking about Akira’s weird, slacker DIY ethos, and how on the surface we kind of have this sorta typical millennial slacker who doesn\u2019t want to \u201cwork,\u201d but then ends up having to hustle pretty hard to live the easy life.<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>By New Mexico standards, Akira is very much in the middle class\u2014and awash in all the advantages and prejudices that come with it. His parents have insisted he work, and he\u2019s just lost his fast food job… so, in that way, despite being middle class, they\u2019ve tried to raise a kid with a work ethic. But, yes, Akira has also been sold an American Dream that says you can have it all just because. He\u2019s lazy… and yet, innovative… creative. It\u2019s like talent versus hard work: each can only get you so far, so you need both. Akira doesn\u2019t realize how good he has it… which is a very middle-class-American mindset.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> Jesus, you know the interview\u2019s going horribly wrong when you get to part e). But here we go: Was that something you had your sights on from the start\u2014this ideal of the \u201cworking class ethos\u201d that has been really kind of corrupted in shitty shitty ways by American \u201cbootstrap\u201d culture and politics?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I was definitely out to skewer parts of America that I dislike, and Akira represents a lot of them. But I\u2019m conflicted too, because he also represents a few of the things I think America is good at\u2014or could be. As to the corruption of the working class\u2014working folks simply don\u2019t have the chance to even think of any of this… they just have to work. This \u201cbootstrap\u201d culture is just another kind of lie like the idealized American Dream. The American Dream exists\u2014but it is so much smaller than advertised. I know because I am living proof. When my mom got sick, we spent about 2 years on food stamps. It absolutely kept us alive…but they were tough and tenuous times. With my 40-hr gig, I\u2019m middle class even if half my work is schlepping boxes around. So the American Dream worked\u2014sort of. I don\u2019t have everything… but I do have more\u2014more safety, and security. Of course, as a white dude, so I\u2019ve had it pretty damn easy.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201c[Akira] was such a shit, such a royal pain in the ass\u2014and yet, deep down, I just knew I couldn\u2019t quit on him.\u201d<\/a><\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> You\u2019ve mentioned Salinger and Holden Caulfield in a few different interviews and it seems like the \u201cabrasive\u201d protagonist comes up a bit with Chinese Gucci<\/em>, which I understand but it always kind of tickles me, this idea that \u201cthe unlikeable\u201d protagonist (versus all those classic novels about \u201clikeable\u201d protagonists).<\/p>\n

My whole childhood I\u2019d heard about Catcher in the Rye<\/em> being banned and how crazy killers read it and then tried to kill people, but I didn\u2019t read it until I was like 22 or something and I remember thinking oh this kid must kill himself in the end or something worse for all the controversy over this.<\/p>\n

Then I read it and I guess this really reveals what an asshole I was\/am, but I was like, What\u2019s the big deal? I mean really really loved the book in ways I probably wouldn’t have admitted at the time, but also the whole time I\u2019m reading it I\u2019m waiting for Holden to kill himself or his parents or do something really subversive, and then spoiler alert: It\u2019s just that nursery rhyme at the end, which is such a great fucking ending, but at the time, I was like, That’s it? This is what made people so crazy? This is the book everybody’s in such a hurry to ban?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>It\u2019s hard to say why Catcher <\/em>is such a touchstone for both those who love and those who hate it. My guess is it has a lot to do with how subtle Salinger\u2019s work is in regards to death and post-traumatic stress and how, post-WWII, America was wounded in ways it didn\u2019t understand. America was hailed as a savior… and yet, at what price? We sold our soul to end the war… and I think we\u2019ve been searching for it since.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong>\u00a0For me I kind of get it, it’s this really pissy, damaged (and definitely privileged to a degree) kid dealing with the death of his big brother and not being able to keep his shit together, but for me that was the whole point, the best part. The most honest depiction of who I was and what I thought everybody was at that point in their lives.<\/p>\n

It was like somebody\u2019d written a really great rambling lyrical monologue of how pissy and angry and self-absorbed I was as a privileged teenager dealing with the suicide of my older brother and not being able to keep my shit together, but also knowing deep down it’s not like I had gone to war or anything. Life wasn’t really that bad.<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I\u2019m sorry to hear about your brother. The fact that the book has had such a lasting impression on American literature is proof that it found something fundamentally American, something the country didn\u2019t want to admit was there. It might be something about mortality and our refusal to consider the truth of our eventual deaths. It might be how complex the notion of vaporizing entire cities in a single morning to serve some \u201cgreater good\u201d was. The book gives us every reason to hate Holden… and yet, there\u2019s something else happening too. If you feel for him, then you really feel for him and seek to understand him. If you don\u2019t, you simply dismiss him. That still sounds very much like America to me.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong>\u00a0You are a very good and kind man to humor my bullshit when obviously, this is just me trying to rationalize what a privileged and unredeemable little shit\/pain in the ass I was\/still am.<\/p>\n

HM:<\/strong> Aren\u2019t we all?<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong>BD:<\/strong> What about the process of \u201cAkira.\u201d Were there points during revision or editing where you felt pressure to soften him a little or make him more or less redeemable based on feedback you were getting?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>It was the strangest thing: When the book started to gel, I honestly just tried to keep up with him. I was working really instinctively\u2014meaning I didn\u2019t actually know what I was doing in my early drafts… I just knew it had to be a certain way. I knew he had to be challenging. I knew he had to be his own biggest problem. I knew he had to be the hero and the villain of his life… I just didn\u2019t know why. I knew I wanted to write a book about America, but I knew I didn\u2019t want to write a sermon from a pulpit. So when Akira started doing things, started talking shit, started messing up, I was surprised and figured I\u2019d just see where it all went. When I started editing with Joshua Mohr\u2014that\u2019s when all the pieces started to make sense, and the larger themes came into focus. I don\u2019t know how it goes for other writers, but if writing novels is always like that, I now truly understand why they seem like magic.<\/p>\n

There was never talk of softening the character, only to work the reader more slowly into the sad, dumb truth of him in the hopes that it would give the book a better chance of getting an agent\/selling in the more traditional route\u2014which was excellent advice. And being excellent advice, you can understand why I wasn\u2019t smart enough to take it! But seriously, Akira had to be what he is… that\u2019s the whole point. No half measures. For the book to work right, softening him actually would weaken the overall effect.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> You\u2019ve mentioned at least some part of this story and the character of Akira were based on your own mother getting cancer (and thankfully recovering) where you were playing that fun game of what might\u2019ve happened to you if things had gone the other way.<\/p>\n

Was there a thought process with you about him getting knocked on his ass a bit or getting \u201cwhat was coming to him,\u201d or finding \u201credemption\u201d?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>He got into trouble all by himself\u2014he didn\u2019t need my help! As for redemption, I\u2019d say that my job was to just try hang with him, put up with him, and just get him through this tough patch to see where he landed. As with people, I think I am probably hoping for the best, but anticipating the worst from everyone. That seems to be a safe way to operate. Everyone is the hero in the movie of their lives so, as the writer, you can\u2019t really take sides with characters… You have to let everyone be who they are and trust that they\u2019ll make the decisions they would as things go along. I think writers trying to steer the narrative are basically used-car salesman trying to trick everyone.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> Was there any sense of self-hate or self-preservation involved in who this kid was and what happened was going to come his way?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>Very little. My investment in Akira (or any character) wasn\u2019t because he\u2019s like me. I think, to write great characters, they all need to have something in them that you know and can relate to. Again\u2014in their movie or their book, they\u2019re the hero\u2014so you have to be able to write each character from their own best point-of-view. Of the four main characters in the book, I have something in common with each… but of course none are me. My job was to understand each character\u2019s point-of-view in all their scenes so they\u2019d behave like themselves. The writer should not be in each scene awkwardly yanking on puppet strings toward specific results. Whatever the writer gets to say must exist solely and subtly between the lines.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u201cThe collage covers were a revelation, and the key to the final draft… that’s when I realized that I was writing something more than a simple yarn about a kid buying fake purses in Juarez. I was writing about America.\u201d<\/a><\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> One of the things I love so much about this book is that from cover to cover it feels like such a punk-rock middle finger to so much of what many publishers, agents, and even writers might tell you your first novel needs to be these days.<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I\u2019m taking that as a compliment. From my perspective, it\u2019s a tough nut to crack because, sure, you want your work out there, in front of people… but it can feel like the only way to get it out there is by gutting it so it\u2019s no longer your work, no longer your vision. It felt a bit like that for me. I tried the typical route for a bit… but it never really felt possible. And I asked myself, when all was said and done, what kind of book did I want on the shelf. For me the answer was the original book, as intended, free from compromise and done as well as I possibly could. Writer’s entire lives often constitute what\u2014one inch, two inches, maybe five inches of space on the shelves of forever? We gotta do our very best to make it count.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> One of those expectations being the \u201csingle-narrative\u201d expectations about what will sell or what readers will be able to wrap their heads around\u2014readers who, as you say, often \u201clump the whole of Asia into a simplistic archetype\u2026 through either an exotic wonder or warfare.\u201d<\/a><\/u><\/p>\n

Was there ever a point where some very white asshole like me told you it was going to be \u201ctoo confusing\u201d to people to read a novel called Chinese Gucci<\/em> about a Japanese-American kid named Akira from Albuquerque, New Mexico who loves rap and works his hustle crossing over to Juarez, Mexico to buy up knock-off high-end purses made in China?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>Not yet\u2014but it might happen. Of course there\u2019s not much reason in listening to someone like that. I think one of the reasons publishing can feel so bland these days is that it\u2019s so often about profit margins and bottom lines that people are forced to listen to too many competing interests. When I think of classics like Catcher<\/em> or like Tropic of Cancer<\/em>, what would those meetings have sounded like? Those books never would\u2019ve been printed. The downside of a big promotional machine is that all the people with skin in the game and their fear that they won\u2019t get their goddamned money back. I\u2019ve been publishing long enough to know that the only thing I\u2019ve regretted is compromise. Doing the book myself meant no compromises were necessary. Having to listen to that very white asshole who thinks they get to say, \u201cWe have to change this\u201d because they\u2019ll get the book in Barnes and Noble, or reviewed at WhereTheFuckEver.com should be exactly the reason why NOT to listen!<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> I know that the collage covers came later in the writing\/revision process along with this idea of Akira as a kind of synecdoche for America, but were you having any of these conversations with yourself as you were writing this?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I constantly thought about WWII while writing the book. Part of it was that Akira was Japanese… but also an American. Those associations are strong for me. Part of it was Catcher<\/em>, and Salinger carrying chapters in his rucksack on D-Day. So that stuff was there all along. Like Akira himself, it was there and I wasn\u2019t really sure why, but it just \u201cfelt right.\u201d Later, when I realized I was writing about America\u2014that\u2019s when I figured out why it felt that way. Again\u2014that part was magic. That part makes me wonder at the sheer potential of the human consciousness and subconsciousness… how somewhere deep down, this stew was being prepared and simmered and only after letting it cook for so long did it actually turn into something I could articulate.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong>\u00a0I know that you’ve said before that you knew that you wanted to write “the great American novel,” which by the way, I fucking love you so much for coming out and saying it no fuss, no muss.<\/p>\n

Was there kind of a middle finger in your mind from the get-go\u2014a desire to write “this great American novel” whether people wanted to hear it or not? Or was it more just: This sounds like a good fucking story I could turn into a novel that other people would want to read?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>My first goal was to finish the damn book! I always wanted to write \u201cthe great American novel,\u201d and as I thought about this story, this book, I knew I wanted to flip the bird at the dull, and useless hyper-masculinity that seems to sprout like a cancer on the underbelly of American culture. I\u2019m not smart enough to figure out where it all comes from\u2014but I know what it felt like growing up, to have a natural instinct to be kinder or gentler, and culturally for that to be considered some kind of weakness. When you look at the things that always fuck with America\u2019s collective mind: sex, death, desire, violence\u2014none of these things are talked about in open or healthy ways. And the ways they ARE talked about… they\u2019re tremendously unhealthy. To me, sex has always been a truly sacred thing… but say as much out loud, and the immediate cultural response, at least when I was growing up, was \u201cWhat are you, gay or something?\u201d So I definitely wanted to write a middle-finger to that kind of mindset, to the racist, sexist, misogynistic, jingoistic, truck-nuts mentality. The trick was to do it with a small, quiet, subtle story that people wanted to keep reading.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> Of course now that I’ve already asked you about all this, I\u2019m starting to question if this whole line of questions about culture and race is revealing what a dipshit kind of white-guy douche I really am with my head up my ass, so I am sorry, and though I wish we could just pretend I didn\u2019t ask what I just asked, I will also understand if you decide this whole line of questioning is so inanely fucked up and offensive that you stop responding to me completely, spam my emails, and block me from your twitter.<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>Not at all. The fact that you worry about asking is evidence of how necessary it is to always ask ourselves this question: Am I just being an obtuse asshole? Usually the asking keeps that from every being the case! There are big things this country has gotten very wrong. Our only chance to sort things is by facing them, owning up, and trying to make it right. Like it or not, these questions are inextricably part of the American fabric. And, like Akira, I haven\u2019t given up on us yet… but it\u2019s obvious every day that we have a lot of soul searching and work to do before we\u2019ll ever fulfill the promise of the American experiment.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cAkira had to be both his own worst enemy, and, when it comes to the buried, wiser parts of himself, his ultimate redemption too.\u201d<\/a><\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> I was really interested in way you portray Akira\u2019s masculinity in the book. You don’t give any easy outs for Akira or for the reader. There’s no built-in excuses or rationalizations for the way he talks\/treats about women.<\/p>\n

You lay out all these issues with his fucked-up ideas about sex and women and masculinity in this both subtle and in-your-face way that will probably make a lot of readers in 2019 (justifiably) uncomfortable but then don\u2019t really offer any easy pop-psychology interpretations to rationalize it back to his parents or growing up in that stereotypical “tough guy” kind of world or really even as a nice, neat indictment of his culture\/environment.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s maybe the point. If there were easy answers to be had, wouldn\u2019t we have things sorted by now? Wouldn\u2019t we have had conversations about what this country has done to Native Americans, to African Americans, to women, to any and everyone but the old, white Colonialist men? I mean, if you\u2019re writing a book about America, that book needs to be about America<\/em>, doesn\u2019t it? This pretending that everything\u2019s okay, that we\u2019re all hunky-dory here just doesn\u2019t pass muster. Maybe it never has. So, when it comes to my work, and my books, and my little life lived in the transit of the 20th and 21st century America\u2014I\u2019m gonna do what I can to report it accurately, and spend time thinking about what kind of person I will be. We have to ask the questions\u2014of ourselves, if not our cities, our states, and our country. I\u2019m not saying I have answers. But I do have some of my<\/em> answers.<\/p>\n

As for Akira and masculinity: Everything about him screams \u201cfake it \u2018til you make it\u201d\u2014which people extol as some virtue and is, to me, terrible advice. Akira\u2019s masculinity (and maybe America\u2019s) is an imitation of what it is to be tough, to be strong, powerful. Maybe it\u2019s born of necessity… because America is a violent and dangerous place, and carrying yourself a certain way means people won\u2019t try you. But it\u2019s exhausting. And dull. And not an especially inspired way of being in the world. Or moving humanity a little closer towards our next evolution. Yeah, we\u2019re moving pretty slow culturally speaking.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> As white kid who grew up play basketball and football and listening to hip hop in the 90\u2019s, then watching all the requisite shy, awkward man-child\/manic-pixie-dream-girl comedies back then, I wonder if most readers twenty, thirty years ago would even pick up on all these things you are portraying about typical male posturing and puffery\u2014which is to say, this was and is fucked up in how normalized it all was, or at least for a lot of men.<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>It\u2019s true. And it still is, in many ways. Culturally yucks came at another\u2019s expense… and the more it hurt the funnier it was. \u201cNormalized\u201d is precisely the right word because at no point were we told to consider another way to be. We learned it little moments where, after shooting off our mouths, we\u2019d seem a glimmer of pain in someone\u2019s eyes and unless you asked yourself what that was about, the lesson was lost.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s another side to hip-hop, in that it very obviously was selling escapism and fantasy as a means of surviving true, daily, existential dread of African-American life. And until future centuries bring much more parity, I\u2019m not gonna talk shit about it. Like Bukowski said: digging through the cement walls with a bent spoon keeps the heart alive. So until there are no walls, I say keep digging.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> Did you have a clear vision of what you wanted to say about masculinity in here from the get-go? Or was that something that just naturally evolved with the character and\/or with your own experiences growing up?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>The only thing I wanted was for it to be a true reflection of the kind of American masculinity I see as a huge part of our cultural problems. I figured the truth of it was enough. As there\u2019s no way to control what a book will say to different readers, the part I could control was the accurate re-telling.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u201cThe best way to put out exactly the book I wanted to was to find all the help necessary to just do it myself.\u201d<\/a><\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a couple months since you put out Chinese Gucci<\/em>. I was wondering how the post-publishing experience has been since its been birthed out into the world?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I set what I felt were some humble yet realistic goals for myself and the book\u2014selling all the special editions, getting copies in a few stores and libraries\u2014and most have happened, so I\u2019m really happy. I\u2019m lucky that I have a really terrific group of family, friends and folks who follow my work, and buy collectible editions, and often drop me a quick note when they\u2019ve finished a book\u2014and it all definitely keeps me going. They\u2019re the best.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> With this being your baby, do you feel more pressure\/stress\/anxiety\/recurring feelings of inadequacy about having to push it yourself, having to put yourself out there more on social media since it seems like you\u2019re not someone who loves social media to begin with?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I don\u2019t mind social media, though I truly don\u2019t feel especially \u201cgood\u201d at it. Hot takes, beefs and clapbacks\u2014I don\u2019t know, maybe that ship has passed me by. A big part of me is introverted, and I don\u2019t know where a comfortable line is between public and private stuff. It\u2019s tiring for me to try to find it, so I tend not to do that much. As for pressure or anxiety to push the book: It\u2019s true that it\u2019s tough to reach new readers\u2014there\u2019s just so much happening all the time. I see people launch books daily, and I\u2019m not even that deep into social media. I\u2019m not a great hustler of things, as I really don\u2019t ever want to twist anybody\u2019s arm into buying my books. Measure that against feeling very proud of the books I have out there, and really wanting folks to take a chance on them…and, again, it feels like being caught between a confusing rock-and-a-hard-place. To me, the hustle is the hardest part of writing. I absolutely want people to read my books… but I never want to push anyone into it.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> I guess I\u2019m wondering how publishing the book you wanted to publish the way you wanted to publish it then translates to promoting the book the way you want to promote it?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>I suppose my default setting when trying to figure out how to spread the word about a new book is by asking myself: what I respond to, what would I like to see someone doing… then I just try to copy that vision. The down side, of course, is I\u2019m not necessarily the best judge of what \u201cworks\u201d\u2014if anything ever does. It feels like trying to read tea leaves, or conjure spirits\u2014it\u2019s all a confounding mystery to me. So I guess I just do my best. I\u2019m not especially tech-savvy, so I give myself a long time to work on things and try to get them right. I have been working with Ben Tanzer\u2014as he is much better at this side of things than I am. He\u2019s been really terrific.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

BD:<\/strong> Do you imagine you would\u2019ve had to\u2019ve put in more hustle or less hustle if you\u2019d had a big press to push it with you (but probably make you do a bunch of stuff along the way to \u201csell\u201d yourself)?<\/p>\n

HM: <\/strong>It would only be more with a big press because I think that\u2019s what big presses have over small ones\u2014access to\u00a0a larger promotional machine. It would be more hustle with a big press because they\u2019d probably have more things for their writers to do. And if that was my reality, then I\u2019d do my best. With the small press though I do think there\u2019s a bit more freedom, and more you can do or try. Does it work any better? I doubt it\u2014but it is a lot more fun. I remember on the THIRST blog tour I played a drinking trivia game with Russ Litten in the UK, kept track of everything we drank over a weekend with William Boyle, talked tacos with Lori Jakiela. That bigger promotion machine is mainly built on reviews in larger venues, sometimes an interview in a national magazine. I\u2019m sure those are fun too, but the small press can and should try to do drastically different things. At least that\u2019s my $0.02!<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I knew he had to be challenging. I knew he had to be his own biggest problem. I knew he had to be the hero and the villain of his life… I just didn\u2019t know why. I knew I wanted to write a book about America, but I knew I didn\u2019t want to write a sermon from a pulpit.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":182,"featured_media":15134,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[232],"tags":[1501,1892,1895,1893,1460,1894],"class_list":["post-15131","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-the-bull-interview","tag-catcher-in-the-rye","tag-chinese-gucci","tag-confederacy-of-dunces","tag-hosho-mccreesh","tag-steph-post","tag-willy-vlautin","writer-benjamin-drevlow"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15131","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/182"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=15131"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15131\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":15145,"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15131\/revisions\/15145"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/15134"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=15131"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=15131"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mrbullbull.com\/newbull\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=15131"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}